Subject: Re: Diabetes and Paxil
Date: Sun, 09 Sep 2001 18:40:01 -0700
From: Malcolm Graham
Newsgroups: misc.health.diabetes

As usual in this newsgroup whenever I question the accepted medical opinion I'm seen as dumb! Time will tell! I certainly don't see Immunocal/HMS-90 as being a herbal fraud. It was developed by medical researchers at McGill University. Unless you are suggesting that it is a fraud because it is Canadian! Where was insulin discovered? In any case, it certainly is not a herbal fraud (milk is not a herb); it might be a medical one but I don't think so.

I didn't consider our discussion to be a medical one, I'm not qualified to offer a medical opinion, but I do think it was a scientific one in which all options are considered. My estimation of your abilities Dr Biggs has dropped considerably since your last post! Was it because you realized I was talking about a malpractice suit against a fellow doctor!

I'm certainly not in denial as my attempts at controlling and trying to understand my disease amply demonstrate. I will be seeking the advice of my lawyer and will follow his legal advice about whether a malpractice suit is warranted.

No matter what the final advice I am certainly not blaming anyone other than myself for my condition; I certainly don't blame my doctor or my genetics. If possible and warranted I will attempt to sue the manufacturer of Paxil for selling a product with known side effects. The manufacturer has already been sued and found accountable for the withdrawal side effects of Paxil and more legal cases are currently in the works.

As I've done with most other threads in this newsgroup, I shall read but not respond to any further discussion on this topic until I'm completed my own research (not medical, of course!)

During the week, I did consult with two lawyers and their advice was that while I might have a case it would be difficult to prove, very costly, and since I didn't have any serious complications yet and the potential awards associated with winning a legal case (at least in Canada) it wasn't worth their time nor mine. In addition, I would have to prove a connection between Paxil and the onset of diabetes within 1 year from the time when I discovered the potential connection. Therefore, I have decided not to pursue a legal case. However, I will continue documenting what I discover. I will pursue a course of education rather than ligation.

William C Biggs MD wrote:
Malcolm,

Up to this point, I thought you were smarter than that, and that this was a medical discussion. So it's one of those herbal frauds? This is not science. This is not medicine. This is all about selling you a bunch of crap, and I hope your aren't falling for the pseudo-science. Quackwatch has Immunocal on it's MLM list for research . http://www.quackwatch.com/06ResearchProjects/mlmrsch.html (Personally, I'm also uncomfortable with the use of MLM to sell Immunocal; however, Dr Briggs is using a common debunking approach that infers that something is invalid simply because someone else has suggested it might be with nothing to currently backup the suggestion other than personal bias and hearsay).

BTW, this product is *not* covered by Medicare. Or Medicaid. If I were you, I wouldn't sue anybody.
See page 1438 in the 2000 edition of the PDR (Physicians' Desk Reference). The NDC (National Drug Control) code is 28770-0970-01 and the medicare claim number is B4155. A prescription is not needed to purchase Immunocal/HMS90 but it will be needed to claim a refund from medicare, medicaid, or an insurance company. For more information, see http://www.cell-defense.com/32791/

You, as many people (non doctors I presume, with doctors, of course, being the only ones capable of understanding drug prescribing information; assuming, of course, that they even read it in the first place!), have misinterpreted the adverse effects section of the prescribing information. (Dr Briggs seems to be inferring that I'm dumb and incapable of understanding what I read without the expert help of a doctor! He is showing his true colors and a superior and I-know-best attitude that is, unfortunately, very prevalent among doctors.) This lists everything that occurred to anyone taking Paxil during its evaluation period. Whether it was cause and effect or just coincidence. Since they have diabetes listed as "rare", or less than 1 in 1000 , I was actually surprised it wasn't higher given the high rates of diabetes and depression. We would expect more overlap than that. Perhaps Paxil is protective in some way, via its reduction of appetite. (I didn't have any reduction in my appetite for food; there was a reduction in my interest in sex and an accompanying significant increase in my ejaculation time, this could be viewed as a positive!)

Malcolm, you are falling into that "It must be somebody else's fault so I am going to sue" mentality. I would add "When Bad Things Happen To Good People" to your book list (Already have! And I've read it. There are better books available; see my recommended book list at http://writedoc.com/webdocs/webbooks.htm) You really didn't mention whether you considered other well known risk factors for diabetes. Have you ruled those out ? (Again the inference that I'm dumb and haven't even considered the obvious! Presumably only a smart doctor can help me do that! Dr Briggs hasn't even taken the time to read my well-documented story where he could receive a direct answer to his question; however, he is using another common rhetorical technique for putting someone down and minimizing their opinion, so he probably isn't interested in an answer to the question posed!)

Best wishes,
William C Biggs, MD